COMPLAINT FILED UNDER:: GENERAL CONSUMER PRODUCTS / KIJIJI DAILY DEALS
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Bogus Buyer On Kijiji
Complaint 250381 Details


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I was contacted by this person regarding a vehicle ad on Kijiji. Told me that they needed a vehicle history for their loan company and suggested vinjudge.autosites.com to obtain. Once I confirmed that I had it, they disappeared. I believe they are a bogus buyer drumming up business for this company

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Comments

  • Emmy
  • Emmy SBID #5cf15494cc
  • Posted 06/21/2013
  • I OWN A CARLOT,I CAN TELL EVERYONE ONE OUT HEAR THAT CARFAX IS BULL.... I SEE COUNTLESS CARS WITH ODOMETER ISSUES,CARS BEEN WRECKED ETC.SALVAGED CARS GO UN REPORTED..carfax has all consumers thinking they have to have a carfax report...CARFAX IS SCAMMING ALL DEALERS,THEY GOT THE PUBLIC THINKING THEY HAVE TO HAVE A REPORT,WHICH MAKES THE DEALERS HAVE TO PAY,ITS EXTORTION,THE COMMON PERSON DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THERE ARE MILLIONS OF CARS THAT SHOULD BE SALVAGED CARS THAT PEOPLE CAN BUY WITH CLEAN TITLES AND FIX THROW BACK ON THE MARKET WITH CLEAN CARFAX
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #d9944c9179
  • Posted 06/22/2013
  • I own a carlot too and buyers always change their mind about buying cars and they do not answer their phones or they give you some bullsh.... reasons .. This is life
    I always show carfax autocheck instavin or any other history records to the buyers so they can see the full info about the cars.
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  • Anon
  • Anon SBID #d87e836030
  • Posted 07/04/2013
  • I don't think this is a CarFax discussion. I too got the exact same request from a buyer saying they need the car history for a loan. They even tried to "hide" the address of vinjudge by giving me a seemingly harmless link.
    Unfortunately, they messed with the wrong person cause I work in a Network Security vendor and we have unlimited resources to bust these types of scams. The link they provided redirects three times and eventually lands on vinjudge.com
    Their Credit Card payment option is not even encrypted. I suggest that you freeze your credit card ASAP... the
    person may have just stole your Credit Card info.
    For anyone who wants to defend vinjudge, please provide information about the company's whereabouts and contact info about their founder. For one, their domain is registered under someone named Vin Judge with no real address. This is public info. Google Whois vinjudge
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  • carla
  • carla SBID #b1bbb9aa35
  • Posted 08/24/2013
  • i was in the market to purchase a vehicle and found one i liked. i gave it the once over and had a mechanic inspect it also. car was in good condition and had no signs of accidents. anyway, i pulled the carfax and it pretty much confirmed what i knew.

    i decided to get a carfax for my current vehicle to show prospective buyers. Well, low and behold, no accidents. Hahaha. The car was in 2 major accidents! I let my sister who just got her license drive it and she got into 2 major wrecks in a period of 2 months. total damages were in the $10k to 12k mark. Luckily she was not hurt at all. Wow, carfax is totally useless. Side note, IMO they should make the driving test just a little harder. just saying.
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  • Rene
  • Rene SBID #36dc10091b
  • Posted 08/24/2013
  • Question: Someone told me to avoid dealers that offer free Carfax reports because some dealers use Carfax reports to scam buyers. Is there anything to this guy's story?






    Doug Ehrlich: While what this "guy" said may occassionally happen, dealers who offer Carfax are typically using the report the right way. The one example I found of a dealer scamming people with Carfax is absolutely not typical of most dealers.






    Judging all dealers who offer free Carfax reports by even one dealer that used it to scam consumers, is as absurd as judging people by the color of their hair. Neither Carfax-promoting dealers, nor Carfax deserve any criticism when some seller finds a way to scam a buyer using a report in a deceptive and manipulative manner.






    Carfax is often the best VIN history report on the market, although it is not infallible or always complete. When it's on target, Carfax is an incredibly valuable resource I always use, in conjunction with two other VIN history reporting services-- AutoCheck and VINCheck.






    The one account of a dealer using Carfax to scam consumers comes from the Atlanta CBS affiliate news station, who reported on a dealer that bought frame-damaged vehicles at the auto auction that were cheap (because they were identified as frame-damaged at the auction) and because they worked for his scam (because their Carfax reports showed nothing negative). That dealer would buy these "clean Carfax" vehicles and sell them to people who were persuaded by sales people that a "clean Carfax" automatically means that the car was pre-screened and found to be in excellent condition.
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  • Rene
  • Rene SBID #36dc10091b
  • Posted 08/24/2013
  • Even at its best, Carfax cannot do more than what it or any other VIN history report can do. It can help you reject a car for something bad or suspicious in its history; however, it can never tell you that a car is good. That can only be determined after a given vehicle is subjected to a comprehensive mechanical and structural inspection by a qualified auto repair technician. Carfax reports are essential to my business and to my customers. However, Carfax does in fact fail to tell me important things that another VIN history service reveals. Therefore, I don't take chances with cars my clients are very interested in purchasing. I always run the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) through Carfax and AutoCheck and VINCheck. By not relying on one service or another, running all three on the same vehicle provides me with the opportunity to gain the most comprehensive information about a vehicle I can never tell which one will provide me with helpful or critical information that the other one or two miss. Sometimes different information provided by two or all three creates a better picture than any one provides alone.
    If all three reports look good, I recommend that my clients then invest in the higher cost of a pre-purchase inspection. Only occasionally does a car pass all of the VIN history reports and fail a pre-purchase inspection. So far as what that "guy said," dealers who offer free Carfax reports does NOT raise suspicion. It is actually something I view favorably. Scammers cannot scam buyers unless the buyer believes the lie. In Atlanta, the lie was "A good Carfax report guarantees a good vehicle." I cannot emphasize the risk is to consumers who skip a pre-purchase inspection. These people leave themselves the most vulnerable to being scammed.
    Buyers should always have the dealer take a deposit to buy a vehicle conditioned on the dealer noting --
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  • Jamie
  • Jamie SBID #6ed9971b1b
  • Posted 09/01/2013
  • William- the exact same thing happened to my 17 y/o son who had listed his Blazer on Craigs list. Foreign seeming person (judged by grammar) offered FULL asking price. Said they needed Hx and sent vinjudge.com link When my son said he would get the carfax, buyer claimed "This is the cheapest & most current I have found". My son, w/o my knowledge, clicked the link, used his bank card to get the history, which was clean. He told the buyer he had the info, next day buyer had excuse of not getting loan approval because of "daughters' bad credit rating". When I found out what was going on, we alerted the bank & FBI internet fraud. I am sure nothing is being done about it, but this was clearly a scam. They can be stealing credit info, using VIN numbers fraudulently... who knows.
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  • gaby
  • gaby SBID #d383d849e1
  • Posted 09/02/2013
  • The VIN numbers are not something PRIVATE. All the cars have the VIN no on the windshield so anyone can run history reports for every car that they see on the street.
    The history will not show the data of the owner so no one can find anything about the car owners from the history reports.
    http://www.autocheck.com/consumers/car-facts/vin-numbers/find-vin.do


    http://www.carmd.com/61.6/Article/WhereIsMyVIN


    No one can steal your identity or credit info from a car history report.

    I sell cars for a living and I have a problem with Carfax because a week ago I had a clean report for a car and when I used another website I found out that the car had a rebuild title.

    I think Carfax doesn't have a good database, I don't say that they are bad but you can't rely on their reports 100%


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  • maria
  • maria SBID #9c635e973f
  • Posted 09/02/2013
  • A Vehicle History Report is Not a Pre-purchase Inspection

    Limitations and Problems with Carfax or any Vehicle History Report

    A history report is like any tool, and there is a limit to what each tool can accomplish. For example, you can’t rebuild an engine using only a screw driver, and you can’t determine the current condition of a vehicle with a history report.

    1) Not all totaled vehicles end up with negative “reconditioned or salvage” titles.
    A Carfax report will show if a vehicle was totaled only if two things happen. First, someone has to create and submit the paperwork which changes the status of the title, and second, Carfax must retrieve that information. If the paperwork was never submitted to the State’s DMV, the title will never be changed. For example, State Farm was sued for not reporting 32,000 to 40,000 “totaled” vehicles to the State’s DMV. Since the titles were never changed, these totaled vehicles were patched together and re-sold to the public with the original "clean" title and a "clean" Carfax report. State Farm was found guilty and agreed to pay $40 million in fines. Automotive experts estimate State Farm made between $60 to $80 million buy not reporting these vehicles to the DMV. This is an easy way to achieve high profit margins and this is not an isolated incident.

    In addition, Carfax fails to inform their customers that there are States that do not report negative comments on their titles. These titles will not show any past problems such as “salvage, rebuilt, true miles unknown, theft recovery, etc…" Carfax’s buyback guarantee is not enforceable since the title was never changed to “totaled”.

    2) There is no centralized database for accident reports or accident repairs.
    Not all insurance companies disclose or share their accident information to Carfax. Carfax admits that there are thousands of accidents each day which will never show up on a Carfax report.
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #9c635e973f
  • Posted 09/02/2013
  • Even if Carfax reports an accident, it cannot inform the buyer the extent of the accident damages, or the quality of any repairs.

    3) There is no centralized database for automotive repairs.
    Carfax does not have any type of reporting mechanism to obtain automotive repairs that are performed each day by franchise repair facilities, independent repair facilities, used car dealers, auction reconditioning, wholesalers, shade tree mechanics, and the millions of do-it-yourselfers. Many Carfax reports show little or no repair information compared to the hundreds of thousands automotive repairs performed each day. Even if Carfax reports a repair, it cannot tell if the problem was fixed correctly or if there are additional mechanical/electrical problems with the vehicle.

    4) Carfax does not verify its information.
    Carfax does not verify the information provided by its sources. Today’s vehicle identification number (VIN) is comprised 17 letters and digits. It is easy to input an incorrect VIN or mileage or other identifying information. Any mistake can cause a Carfax report to wrongly show "mileage discrepancies, airbag deployment, accident damage, salvage, ect…" Any database manager will tell you, “garbage in, garbage out”.

    5) Used car dealers know the limitations of a Carfax report.
    Some dealers knowingly buy vehicles with frame and accident damages but have a "clean" Carfax report. They sell these damaged vehicles to unsuspecting buyers by showing a Carfax report with “no structural damage reported" and “no accidents or damage reported to Carfax”.
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #9c635e973f
  • Posted 09/02/2013
  • 6) Carfax can't tell you who owns the vehicle.
    Carfax does not tell you who currently owns the vehicle. Carfax only displays the registration state. You have to contact the DMV to determine the registered owner.

    7) Any State's annual safety and/or emission tests are very limited.
    A Carfax report might show that a vehicle passed a States’ annual safety and/or emission test. However, these annual safety and/or emissions tests do not cover most mechanical and electrical systems. A previous safety and/or emission test cannot tell the buyer the current condition of any component or systems.

    8) Carfax is a "history" report, not a “current” report.
    There will always be a time lag from when a negative incident occurs and when (or if) it get into a Carfax report. This time lag can be significant and allow a damaged vehicle to be re-sold before Carfax reports the negative information.

    9) Carfax reports are expensive for the small amount of useful information.
    A Carfax report sells for $40. Pay that amount and 1) you can’t be 100% sure if the vehicle was ever in an accident(s) or totaled, 2) the quality of any previous accident damage, 3) if the vehicle was abused or well maintained, 4) the existing condition of ANY mechanical or electrical system.
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #9c635e973f
  • Posted 09/02/2013
  • 10) Carfax is not consumer friendly.
    Internet sites are full of complaints and problems with Carfax. If you have a complaint or see a mistake on a report, you must contact them via email and wait for them to respond (Carfax does not allow phoned in complaints). Carfax will not perform an investigation when you dispute a negative report. Carfax requires the consumer to get documentation disputing what Carfax has in its database. Obtaining proof is usually tedious and time consuming. Some errors are impossible to dispute especially if the reported information is erroneous.

    11) Carfax hides behind their disclaimer.
    Many Carfax customers have purchased used vehicles with a “clean” Carfax report only to discover existing problems and accident damages resulting in a financial loss. When confronted by their customers, Carfax refers them to their disclaimer.

    The perception created by Carfax, suggests their history reports contain comprehensive historical information on used vehicles. Carfax touts it has over 34,000 data sources of information. However, that's less than 10% of the estimated automotive industry sources.

    For years, Carfax advertised itself as “your best protection against buying a used car with costly, hidden problems”. Currently, Carfax advertising states: Don't run the risk of buying a used car with costly hidden problems. Get a detailed vehicle history report from our nationwide database within seconds”.

    Consumers are led to believe that if the Carfax report is “clean” they eliminated the risks when purchasing a used vehicle.
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #9c635e973f
  • Posted 09/02/2013
  • Conclusion:
    A history report is like any tool, and there is a limit to what each tool can accomplish. No history report can determine the current condition of a vehicle.

    You cannot negotiate your best deal unless you know the exact condition of the vehicle. The ONLY way to determine the current condition of all the mechanical, electrical, body & frame is to have it professionally inspected by an ASE Certified Master Technician for all the mechanical and electrical systems, and Body & Frame Specialist for accident damage.
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  • Glen
  • Glen SBID #973b94f914
  • Posted 11/03/2013
  • Thanks for this helpful discussion. The real issue is VinJudge, apparently a fake car history company that generates false reports. I was taken in such a scam and am out $10; I also had to cancel my credit card in case of further fraud. The report it generated was false, including missing accidents and other mistaken information. The supposed buyer from Kijiji who sent the link (a link that sends you eventually to VinJudge) was not forthcoming and used rather intimidating language. One website suggested that VinJudge is Russian based but uses an American internet address. That would explain the poor language of the buyer and the odd hours of the emails. My recommendation: stay far away from VinJudge and similar companies, and do not engage sellers on Kijiji or other such sites who seek to lure your to use such sites. It is likely that they are merely part of the scam.
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #d383d849e1
  • Posted 11/05/2013

  • Buying A Used Car
    Top 10 Ways to Avoid Used Car Fraud
    by Amanda Hudson | Apr 17, 2013

    Next to a house, buying a car is one of the most important purchases you as a consumer can make. Purchasing a used car can be the perfect way to find a vehicle that suits your needs, your lifestyle and your budget.

    As with any major purchase, you need to do your due diligence before buying a used car to make sure the vehicle is right for you and to avoid any frauds or scams. This process requires research, careful consideration and time to look around at different models and retail avenues.

    We’ve compiled 10 tips to help you navigate the used vehicle market and ensure you get a great deal and a great car.
    1
    Watch for ads or sellers that are too good to be true
    If you’re searching through online or print classifieds and the price of a vehicle seems too low in comparison to what other people are charging or what the typical value of that make and model is, then you might want to consider why this is. This also holds true throughout the shopping process – if the seller will only communicate by email, gets too pushy or does something that sets off your alarm bells, walk away from the sale.

    2
    Beware of curbsiders (also called curbstoners and curbers)
    A curbsider is an unlicensed individual, dealer or retailer who sells cars with the goal of making a profit. A curber will buy up vehicles and instead of registering them under their own name, they post the same vehicles for sale with a mark-up. The curber will pose as the previous owner or tell potential buyers that they’re selling the car for a family member or friend, often playing on a buyer’s emotions by telling them a sad story. A curber might misrepresent the real condition of the car, turn back the odometer or hide major issues and will typically convince the new buyer to pay with cash in order to avoid a paper trail. The curber ends up making a profit on the vehicle but avoids paying any taxes.
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #d383d849e1
  • Posted 11/05/2013
  • They often have several cars for sale at the same time and usually request that the potential buyer meet them in a public place to avoid revealing their own personal address and information.
    3
    Get the CarProof report
    A CarProof Vehicle History Report will provide you with comprehensive and real-time information that gives you a complete history of the vehicle including accident information, registration details, cross-Canada lien information and a full U.S. history. Ask the seller if they can provide you with a report or buy your own to ensure you know the full story behind the vehicle. Each CarProof report comes with an active web link from CarProof.com. You should check the link, as well as the paper copy, to make sure the hardcopy the seller provided corresponds with the online version.
    4
    Check out the dealer
    If you’re buying your used car from a dealership, then look into the dealer’s background and reputation. Each province in Canada has a provincial governing body that issues dealer licenses, a requirement in order to legally sell vehicles in Canada.

    5
    Look for liens and stolen cars
    A CarProof report will tell you if there are enforceable liens from anywhere in Canada on the car. A lien is an ownership interest that a vehicle owner grants to a party, as security or collateral for a loan. If the vehicle does have an outstanding lien on it, the new owner could be liable for it. CarProof’s reports also contain information from the Canadian Police Information Centre and by reading the report, you’ll know if a vehicle is marked as actively stolen.
    6
    Verify the seller’s identity and the VIN
    Ask your seller for proof of identity and check that the seller’s name and address matches up with the information on the vehicle registration form. You want to know that the person selling the vehicle is actually the owner. Make sure you’re looking at the actual registration form as well and not a photocopy.
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  • maria
  • maria SBID #d383d849e1
  • Posted 11/05/2013
  • This is also a good time to double check the make, model, year, license plate and vehicle identification number (VIN) of the car against the registration form. The VIN number can be found on the vehicle’s dashboard, looking in from the windshield on the driver’s side and is also located on the door jamb/post, inside the driver’s side door, where it latches. Have a look at the number to see if there’s any evidence of tampering. The numbers that are used in each VIN actually tell the story of when the vehicle was made, the make, model, body style and country of origin. You can check out CarProof’s free VIN Decoder to verify that your VIN matches the vehicle specs.
    7
    Get a good read on the odometer
    Rolling the odometer back is a sneaky way to increase the value of a car with high mileage. Have a look at the actual odometer – do all of the numbers line up and is there any evidence of sabotage (scratches, cracks) in and around the odometer? Does the wear and tear of the seats, steering wheel, brake pedals and overall interior show more use than the mileage would indicate? The average vehicle use per year is around 20,000 kilometres so if the car falls far below this you might want to question it.
    8
    Double check the condition of the car
    When you get the opportunity to check out the vehicle, give both the inside and the outside a thorough inspection to make sure it’s consistent with the condition that the seller is advertising. When it comes time to go for a test drive, don’t rush – it could take up to 30 minutes to accurately gauge how well the vehicle is running. Don’t forget to listen for any strange or telling noises.

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  • maria
  • maria SBID #d383d849e1
  • Posted 11/05/2013
  • 9
    Don’t pay before you get the vehicle
    Never agree to pay for the vehicle upfront or send money via wire transfer. While a small deposit can be a great way to let the seller know you’re serious about purchasing the car, don’t hand over the full amount to the seller until the day the car is ready to go home with you. If the seller requests a third-party escrow service, investigate the service to make sure it’s legitimate and secure, as many online escrow sites are fraudulent.
    10
    Take the vehicle for a pre-purchase inspection
    Get an independent, licensed mechanic to give the vehicle a detailed pre-purchase inspection. He or she will be able to spot any issues that the vehicle might have as well as share any concerns about potential repairs or replacements that will cost you down the road. Bring your CarProof report with you as you’ll want to verify that any damage was properly repaired.
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  • Dave
  • Dave SBID #6efcfb46ae
  • Posted 11/05/2013
  • Whether you buy a used car from a dealer or an individual:
    •Examine the car using an inspection checklist. You can find checklists in magazines, books, and on websites that deal with used cars.
    •Test drive the car under varied road conditions — on hills, highways, and in stop-and-go traffic.
    •Ask for the car's maintenance record from the owner, dealer, or repair shop.
    •Talk to the previous owner, especially if the current owner is unfamiliar with the car's history.
    •Hire a mechanic to inspect the car.
    •Determine the value of the vehicle before you negotiate the purchase. Check the National Automobile Dealers Association's (NADA) Guides, Edmunds, and Kelley Blue Book.
    •Research the frequency of repair and maintenance costs on the models in auto-related consumer magazines. The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Vehicle Safety Hotline (1-888-327-4236) and website gives information on recalls.
    •Check a trusted database service that gathers information from state and local authorities, salvage yards, and insurance companies for an independent and efficient review of a vehicle’s history. For example, the Department of Justice’s National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) offers information about a vehicle’s title, odometer data, and certain damage history. Expect to pay a nominal fee for each report. The National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) maintains a free database that includes flood damage and other information so you can investigate a car's history by its Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). You also can search online for companies that sell vehicle history reports. If the report isn't recent or you suspect that it has missing or fabricated information, verify it with the service. Some dealer websites have free links to reports directly from the services.
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